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NURBS again... 
By Corrine on Jun 09, 2001 06:59 PM
I am trying to learn nurbs and for some reason i can't find any extensive knowledge about it anywhere.  I only know the bare basics from very few tutorials I found online.  Does anyone know of some good references for Nurbs.  I am using Max3.  It would be soooo much appreciated.
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Re: NURBS again... 
By gman on Jun 10, 2001 03:59 AM
Nurbs in Max 3 are difficult to master, in fact I hate 'em.  I really dont think many people use them apart from industrial design folks.  A ood place to learn nurbs is to start using Rhino (http://www.rhino3d.com)

Thats a great nurbs modeller, and it's built-in tutorials will help you a lot.  It's free to download and use for '25 saves'.  Good luck.

-Gav
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Re: NURBS again... 
By SlimGoneFat on Jun 25, 2001 04:13 AM
I have the same problem, currently have just being using mesh modelling and it has been working well, but I have neglected NURBs, more because the tutorials/documentation standard is either too bad or just too complicated. I found that there was nothing really out there to step you through the basics to the advanced. I also would like to learn, as mesh modelling can be very tedious and time consuming.

Try www.webreference.com\3d

This has a good number of 'lessons' on NURBS for Max 2.5. Although, various other people have also recommended learning NURBS in Rhino and then exporting to Max.
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Re: NURBS again... 
By ambient-whisper on Jun 25, 2001 08:53 PM
with the right tools, and methods..."mesh modelling" can be 20x faster than nurbs.
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Re: NURBS again... 
By SlimGoneFat on Jun 25, 2001 11:51 PM
I guess it is the technique and practice, as with anything. I personally would like to have teh choice of NURBS or mesh modelling depending on the situation, more I think that I want to learn, than need to...if you know what I mean.

At the moment I am modelling a skeleton hand, modelling each bone seperate. I have drawn out the structure of the bones, dimensions, etc but have been toying with NURBS and mesh modelling...rather than picking one!

I guess then that majority of people mesh model??
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Airflow on Jul 09, 2001 09:22 PM
I started out beliving that nurbs were useless, but after using rhino, I have come to an arrangement, with character heads done with sub-d's and the clothes done with nurbs, the seams fit naturally where they would on normal cloth. Its gotta be good for somthing besides cars.. ;D
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Thanks 
By Corrine on Jul 31, 2001 09:11 PM
Bad me, I haven't been back in a while but I just wanted to say thanks for the tips.  I tried Rhino and I absolutely LOVE it!  NURBS are great.  Only thing is I am having trouble finding books for it but other than that from what I've learned so far its an awsome program.
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Re: NURBS again... 
By looney_guy on Aug 04, 2001 07:30 AM
:D
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Re: NURBS again... 
By looney_guy on Aug 04, 2001 07:31 AM
:-D
HI can u tell me please from whene i can download rhino?
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Re: NURBS again... 
By ambient-whisper on Aug 04, 2001 07:32 AM
http://www.rhino3d.com/
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Re: NURBS again... 
By DavidZachar on Aug 19, 2001 03:39 AM
Nurbs are pretty good and fast, anyone saying the opposite does not master them.
They're the most accurate modelling technique available.
Although they can get on your nervs sometimes, they are the best thing yet and the entire animation industry uses them.

My $0.02
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Xrazir on Oct 05, 2001 07:25 AM
I agree. After using NURBS in Max, I've had a hard time going back to "mesh modelling". I find them incredibly easy to modify and you can create organic shapes so much easier with them.

-Brett
www.monolith3d.com
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Scott on Nov 28, 2001 12:44 PM
If I do my nurbs in Rhino, can I import it to 3dsmax and finish it there? I have never seen this Rhino 3d, but if it is that easy then I might try it for modeling and do the rest with max.8)
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Re: NURBS again... 
By ambient-whisper on Nov 28, 2001 02:03 PM
im going to play devils advocate ;D
Nurbs are pretty good and fast, anyone saying the opposite does not master them.

you dont have to master anything to be able to tell if something is unintuitive. when you pick up a pencil you want to go right at drawing a picture...right?! and not drawing the arm on one piece of paper, then the body on another, then gluing the pieces together and trying to make sure everything fits seemlessly. but nurbs are good for mechanical objects. ( well some anyway. )


They're the most accurate modelling technique available.

yes they are. but when your doing character work you dont need accuracy do you?

they are the best thing yet and the entire animation industry uses them.

theyve been the "best thing for years...and now the animation industry is slowly moving away from them. ( example, the final fantasy characters heads are subds, all pixar characters are subds since toy story 2.)
reason for the switch is because the only reason nurbs were used in motion pictures was because of the smoothness. but now that subds have gone a long way and have very good tools...you can smooth subds just as far as nurbs with not much of a performance hit ( in most cases less than with nurbs because all detail is localized...whereas with nurbs its across the whole span of the model/patch if you want just 1 extra cv.). you get easier tools for subds as well. also, nurbs models deform like nurbs models, and there isnt much you can really do about it( and if you do ..itll take quite a few guys on your team to make an impressive rig on a nurbs model). reason why i say this is because lets say that you want a muscle to bulge and simulate skin sliding over the muscles and bones.
well with polys i can just sculpt the geometry to fit my liking, move a few points/edges/faces save that state, and then when the bone will rotate itll come right to that shape it takes me seconds.( and i dont have to pull a 100000 cvs and worry about tangency between the patches)

but then it doesnt matter what the animation industry uses...does it. its all a matter of prefference.

heres a link to a VERY well written rant on nurbs vs subds.

http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/subdiv.htm


Last modification: ambient-whisper - 11/28/01 at 15:03:26
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Koztah3d on Nov 28, 2001 09:19 PM
Yeah, but then you have max's surface tools, that are like NURBS or Patch, but with more control on curves and vertices in general, and you can have everything fit seamlessly from the get-go. ;)
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Re: NURBS again... 
By ambient-whisper on Nov 28, 2001 09:37 PM
but ALL of that control can turn into a pain in the butt all those bezier lines...ugh., and you can paint yourself into a deat corner with a tri patch. ( i used to be all patches before subds ).

reason why i like subds soo much is because you set your proportions first, then shape, and then refine your surface details. very much like a classical sculptor would. so the tools are very familliar to me.
with patches you have to sketch your surface, then add the details through those splines/patches. which can sometimes once again be a pain in the butt. and its always better to have some concept pic available before doing a surface tool model. whereas with subds i can go freeform and sculpt the shape as i go.

anyhoo. its still a matter of preference. go with whatever floats yet boad.
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Koztah3d on Nov 30, 2001 05:17 PM
Ah, there it is, you see!

When I first used surface tools I completely flipped out, because it's the perfect tool for me, seeing as I'm a graphite n' paper guy, not a sculpter (I can't even make decent stuff out of clay, the closest I can come to sculpting is papier mache). I agree it must take less time with subdivs (at least it SEEMS that way), but I can't wrap my head around it, I'm a control freak. Everything needs to be were I tell it to be and how I tell it to be when I deal with complex shapes or I flip out ;) One quality I have to develop is the art of 'Not Wanting Everything To Look Just Right While I'm Working On The Bloody Thing' (I'm sure there's a word for it but my thesaurus is in another room).
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Re: NURBS again... 
By CoolHandLuke on Dec 01, 2001 10:43 AM
Heck just when I thought I had found my answer to ModeloPhobia.. NURBS.. i get to hear about this Subdivs.

Worse, I hear Max 4.0 is pathetic when it comes to NURBS.

Even worse, i read this : http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/subdiv.htm

;)

Okie dookie.. free your mind.. free your mind.. JUMP!!!!
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Shift71 on Jan 16, 2002 09:27 AM
sorry guys..but if max4 is no good in nurbs, I wonder what on earth is?!
it's only recently that i started exploring box and patch modeling - my machine is not that hot so render times tend to spin out of control.
i find them rather nice, but you have to forget about precision.
and yes, I am trained as industrial designer - car designer to be more precise...
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Re: NURBS again... 
By venuvu on Feb 01, 2002 04:16 AM
nourbs is some thing tugh to get good knowledge....but it needs good guide lines.
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Scion on Feb 26, 2002 08:30 PM
I just got done reading the lessons on www.webreference.com\3d  for NURBS. My mind is still spinning  but it did teach me a few concepts behind NURBS modelling. What I'd really like to find is a good source of NURBS tutorials. Any suggestions? Right now I just stare at the NURBS tools in Max 3 for a bit and then move onto something else. Its driving me crazy! I must learn it, I must, I must. I can't quit now! Help me please!:o
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Scion on Feb 28, 2002 07:24 PM
By the way, is there a way to flip normals on a NURBS surface in Max 3? For some strange reason I can't find the button.
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Duckenator on Mar 01, 2002 08:10 AM
Ambient Whisper,
You are right on some points with NURBS, however I think you should take another look at how to use them, your comment that adding detail in one spot adds it to the entire surface couldn't be farther from the truth. CV's must be added in rows, true but a modeler no longer needs to add a thousand points to get decent detail if he/she knows how to use point weight properly and plans out a strategy before modelling. I'm not knocking sub division, I think they're great, just saying that maybe you haven't explored NURBS enough yet
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Teyon on Apr 15, 2002 02:05 PM
I have to say that Nurbs are great.  I've been using Rhino for years and love them.  I will admit that they have limitations, just like all forms of modeling.

 When I first started with Rhino, I thought I'd never be a modeler because it was all new to me.  I then tried my hand at Nendo and using that program for a week or two gave me insight into what I was doing wrong in Rhino.  Nurbs aren't patches...they aren't subd's...they're nurbs and if you approach them expecting to use them the same way you use these other tools, you'll be stuck.  Like the man said, Free your mind.  As Ambient Whisper stated, the important thing is what you find easy to use.
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Re: NURBS again... 
By Arachnode on May 09, 2002 09:59 PM
NURBS do have some major downsides. I'm just pretty much starting out, I'm in a tech school right now and here we use Maya, not Max. I've messed with Max a little in the past, but never knew what the heck I was doing. But now I've got a pretty good grasp on this stuff, and I've used polys and nurbs quite a bit, but I haven't had the chance to work with Sub D's yet. What I've learned is that Nurbs can be good for some things, and if you don't have a program with Sub D's you should probably make character heads in NURBS. Polys are good because they have local control, so you can modify one section of a surface instead of having to add cv's for the entire surface, so NURBS aren't the best thing since sliced bread. However NURBS can give you a nice result for organic things if you don't have the option of using Sub D's, which from what I understand are a combination of NURBS and polys. My vote goes with Subs for the best tool.
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