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Max price drop? 
By grafikdon on Apr 07, 2002 08:23 AM
Now that Maya has been given a well deserved price tag ( $1999) and Lightwave is $1559  and Animation Stand ( formerly $ 5000) now $595! Do you think there will be a drop in the price of 3D Studio max ? Just curious, I am a Lightwaver.[color=Red:8133a97acb][/color:8133a97acb]
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Re: Max price drop? 
By christopher on Apr 07, 2002 12:32 PM
i certaily hope so...being that maya is 10x the product that max is...and 50x what lightwave is....

Last modification: Christopher - 04/07/02 at 14:32:50
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Re: Max price drop? 
By grafikdon on Apr 07, 2002 01:44 PM
Hooooooly coooow ! D-a-m-n, man, were you smoking crack when you typed that?  I assume you are kidding, Maya is neither 10x what Max is nor 50x what Lightwave is, heck ,even Maya isn't 3x better than the $300 Animation Master. Ever wondered why A/W sliced the price of Maya so drastically? Because they want make it affordable to independent animators/modelers. Bullshit! Because they have realised that the Maya craze is all about hype and the outrageous price for a product that is not 4 or 3X better than its rival is carving a big hole in the company's finance, why because since there isn't much you can do with Maya that u can't do with Lightwave, the trend is seriously shifting to Lightwave, Max,Cinema 4D and so on.Bottom line; I am glad that A/W has finally come to their senses and gave Maya a well deserved price tag , $1999! The only thing that sucks is that present Maya users have been ripped off and that isn't a happy ending. This is no skin off my ass anyway since I never cared about Maya, but to a whole bunch of Maya enthusiasts who were weighed down by the former outrageous and ridiculous price, this is definitely a goooooooooood neeeeews!
I am just waiting for softimage to join the price slashing band wagon, I wonder how they are still in business given the limited number of people that use that stuff.

:o:o

Last modification: Obinna O - 04/07/02 at 15:42:12


Last modification: Obinna O - 04/07/02 at 15:44:37
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Re: Max price drop? 
By christopher on Apr 07, 2002 06:09 PM
well...i guess you have never used maya in a producton environment.

i am happy that maya is cheaper now....but come on....lightwave and max are pretty much "let the software be the artist" tools....its all about plug ins and presets....what would they be without them?...but dont misunderstand me...i think both those products are great....you really get alot for your money with lightwave....but lightwave's 2 program workflow is old school...and max is buggy as hell...especially that character studio garbage....and just try to make a script in either one...without knowing C++.

maya is a deep program(not without it's issues)...there really isnt anything it cant be made to do....even without any plugins.

as far as XSI goes...well...it is in my opinion superior to maya and really is the next thing as far as 3d advancement....more people need to catch on to it.

i think the real moral of the story is..."it is the story that counts"...not the creator of the story.

the days of the 50k-75k jobs are over for majority of us.
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Re: Max price drop? 
By Koztah3d on Apr 07, 2002 11:52 PM


....but come on....lightwave and max are pretty much "let the software be the artist" tools....its all about plug ins and presets....


Funny, I must have missed the 'Do all the work' button on my 3ds Max. is it a 4.0 feature? because crap, here I am slaving over these models for a couple of months..

I don't really use any plugins except a different renderer and ShagHair. And yes, Max has lots of preset materials, but they all look like crap so there's no real point in using them, because if you know what you're doing you can make better-looking ones in the time it takes you to pick one out of the presets. As for Character Studio, is there really that much artistic merit in building the same damn human skeleton out of bones over and over and over again? It's more of a pain in the ass. And if you like extreme technical difficulties in your 3d work, hell, Max's UVW Unwrap is all you need! Move vertices ot the right. Scale vertices. Soft Select vertices. Move vertices some more. Whoopee.
And don't get me started on SoftImage. I remember my SoftImage classes. Hell, the teacher ask a question, answer 'NURBS' or 'Zzot' and you're eighty percent sure to have the right answer. Which depends on how much your instructors liked Zzots. Trees. Lighting. Plants. Zzot Zzot Zzot. I hope there are never any Zzots in Max. I've had Zzot nightmares these past few years. I don't think I could bear it.

But anyway, yeah, my MAX doesn't do anything for me, really. Yes, presets can help. But I make all my presets myself. I have a nice little notebook I keep them in. I'm so oldschool, with my pen and paper.

Oh yeah.


Some people use plugins for everything though...stairs, trees, anything. I bet some people even have plugins to make cubes with. But it's up to you whether you use them or not.

So enough with the dick-waving and the my-program-is-better-than-yours crap.

"Maya is five zillion trillion times better than Max! Nyah nyah nyah! Look, I have a Thundercats lunchbox!!!"

Next someone will be going on about how Mozart is 'better' than Beethoven or Paganini. Jeez.
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Re: Max price drop? 
By grafikdon on Apr 08, 2002 05:23 PM
'Next someone will be going on about how Mozart is 'better' than Beethoven or Paganini. Jeez. '


Bwahahahahahahahahahahahhah! My friend, I think my medical bill is on you,that's for making me break my ribs while laughing. Whew! That's one of the funnist sh it I ever heard, not forgetting the people who use plug ins for everything including cubes( and possibly points)
Whew! I gotta go catch some breath.
I will post a reply when I have pushed my ass back in ( 'cause I laughed it off)

;D;D;D:)
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Re: Max price drop? 
By christopher on Apr 11, 2002 04:19 AM
come on guys...if you really belived that you would just use blender for free....or strata studio pro....and this wouldn't even be a topic.
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Re: Max price drop? 
By kithng on Apr 13, 2002 09:46 AM
so are you seriously thinking those professional Lightwave and Max user out there are idiot ?

I myself using both lightwave and maya in production for over 4 years, for commercial work, I would choose lightwave over maya anytime.

for film work and if you have a large team of technical director support, maya is more flexible and have deeper tool sets, but not even 2 times better.

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Re: Max price drop? 
By Valkyrien on Apr 13, 2002 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Phillip Miller, Vice President, Product Management Group, Discreet, a division of Autodesk, Inc.

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to take a few minutes and update people from NAB regarding 3ds max et. al.

Discreet is a magnet at NAB for all those wanting to know the latest innovations for postproduction, as we produce the solutions by which all others are judged. This particular NAB was particularly significant as the 10th anniversary for Flame had us debuting major new architectural releases of Flame and Inferno. At the same time, we are quietly debuting a technology demonstration of a new postproduction architecture (codenamed Strata & Mezzo) working on Windows that lives synergistically with our current SGI solutions, and will ultimately have Discreet revolutionize the industry once again across the forthcoming decade. With that sort of news happening at NAB, we did not feel it to be the correct time to debut our advances in animation because they would not receive the attention they properly deserve..

Discreet has not commented on A|W’s recent price slashes because, as one of the largest software companies in the world, it does not comment on the measures or status of other companies. With that said, I would like to comment on our offerings and what we feel is important for the industry and you, its artists.

You have been able to count on a consistent price for constantly advancing technology with Discreet’s animation products for over 11 years, and there are no plans for this to change just because of a desperate competitive measure. Over the years, our animation offerings have caused numerous companies (including A|W) to radically change their pricing in an attempt to compete and this is just the latest of such moves. Discreet’s animation offerings continue to advance with ever deepening connections to our postproduction solutions, and you can depend upon Discreet to be delivering significant added value to the tools you depend upon for the life of your business.

While Discreet has always believed that professional animation tools should be accessible to all, and is the clear pioneer in that regard, it also believes tools must be properly designed to accommodate the audience and their goals. Lowering prices alone, especially of extremely general software with steep learning curves, does not make the offering more approachable or applicable for the user, while doing little to increase the number of people using 3D. Instead, Discreet believes in well-purposed solutions for the task at hand - such as 3ds viz for architects, gmax for game enthusiasts, gmax-dev for game designers, plasma for web designers, and is the core reason 3ds max is, and has been, the most widely used professional 3D tool in the world.

It should also be noted that although A|W’s price slashing may be news to the public, it is not a new of a situation at all for Discreet. Facilities have been deciding between our companies’ offerings for years, and in such situations, Discreet was often not the least expensive bid – and the volume of 3ds max adoption speaks to what studios concerned with efficiency and life cycle costs choose.

Some NAB clarifications from other posts I’ve seen –
· NAB is primarily about broadcast and postproduction, and as such, our theater presentations cover such production with 3ds max interwoven within the well-honed workflow found in so much work.
· Discreet’s booth has equal presence for all of its products, and 3ds max could be said to have double given that there is also space given to plug-in partners showcasing cutting edge solutions such as ACT and Entropy to name just a couple.
· Discreet has been mentioning support for LW, SI, and Maya data, in addition to 3ds max, simply because our effects products will soon be supporting .FBX as a general 3D interchange format.
· Discreet's NAB User's Group (which had a record attendance of about 1700 this year) is a highly technical event delivered by our systems developers for our (mostly Irix) postproduction customers.
· As part of NAB, and through the end of April, Discreet is offering a sales promotion that includes 3ds max that was long planned and should not be seen as any sort of “reaction”. Since it’s release in January, the reception of Combustion 2 has been incredible in post houses, and it’s ability to work with animation (thanks to its 16-bit color, grain and color correction tools, OGL, particles, etc.) is being realized by many animators. To make that combination more accessible, the price for combustion and 3ds max 4 together is $5,995 (North America) and we made it world-wide for all those who couldn’t attend NAB.

In closing, Discreet is having a fantastic NAB and we’re looking forward to bringing you exciting news on 3ds max in the not too distant future (and then it will be our flame & smoke customers turn to feel under-represented :-).

- Phil

Phillip Miller
Vice President, Product Management Group
Discreet, a division of Autodesk, Inc.


Anybody think this guy's a bit arrogant? :p
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Re: Max price drop? 
By christopher on Apr 13, 2002 05:14 PM
hehe....to kithng,

i really dont care that much...personally i prefer a pencil and paper to 3d....that really is the only truely reliable tool... :-)

i just find it funny that someone thinks people would spend thousands of dollars more on maya because of hype.

that truely was a reduculous statement....

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Re: Max price drop? 
By grafikdon on Apr 14, 2002 04:53 AM
Yes, some people buy Maya for the sake of hype. I wasn't smoking crack when I typed that. Check this out;
I was talking with one of my friends who recently decided to integrate 2D and 3D ( like I did)  when he told me he uses Maya and I told him I was a Lightwaver, he asked  " What the heck is Lightwave?"
I thought he was joking until he insisted I throw more light on the Lightwave stuff. Well, I described to him what Lightwave was and his reply was " Never heard of that"
Bottom line: This is a guy who worked off his ass and bought a legit copy of  Maya without even bothering if there are other software with similar capabilities. He gasped when he saw what I was doing with Maya and when Maya price came hurtling down, I had to prevent him from sticking a gun up his head and pulling the trigger ( errrr...ok ,that never really happened but he was extremely pissed at A/W for making such an "Irrational desperate move" and do not ever tell him you are not legit, that would earn you a first class ticket
to the place called six feet under)
I could go on giving you examples but this will do for now. 'Nuff said
peace.
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Re: Max price drop? 
By thesuperph on Apr 14, 2002 09:58 AM
oh thanx for all of you to confuse me more and more with choosing my program !! my partner thinx that we must convert to maya ,but i prefere no to throuw out years of experience in max , really i find max very powerfull, except in organic modeling so now i started rhino 3D for modeling , beleive be this rhino is great ;D
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Re: Max price drop? 
By christopher on Apr 14, 2002 11:29 AM
if you like rhino...then you like nurbs....then Maya or XSI is for you. LW has no nurbs....and max nurbs are dirt.

but rhino + max could be powerful.
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Re: Max price drop? 
By thesuperph on Apr 15, 2002 02:41 AM
well, most of my projects were (in past ) in the architectural presentation and animation so max and autocad was more than enough, but after we satarted doing commercials we were to know nurbs modelling , relly the rhino is a low price package though its very powerfull (as i think), i made some good models using it but i think i need more tutorials...  
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Re: Max price drop? 
By ambient-whisper on Apr 15, 2002 08:47 AM
Hamoudah:  are you using meshtools for organics in max? it makes things a hell of a lot easier.
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Re: Max price drop? 
By thesuperph on Apr 15, 2002 09:18 AM
i did in past , but now i model them totaly in rhino (only for organics) ,and finilize them in max . well i love max but when it wants to make the objects impossible to edit it turns your day to a helly day  :o
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Re: Max price drop? 
By christopher on Apr 15, 2002 12:57 PM
have you tried box modeling?...thats how we do everything here..but in maya.....you can make pretty much anything like that.
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Re: Max price drop? 
By thesuperph on Apr 19, 2002 02:07 AM
well yes i use the box modelling, but the accuricy inrhino can easily be onbtained , max can give good results but when u have design already done and you want to make it 3d rhino helps too much more than the max modifieres, right?.... about maya its too expensive so im thinking to train first on using it before i can even think of buying it
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Re: Max price drop? 
By christopher on Apr 19, 2002 03:50 AM
well...maya is half the price of max now ($1999)...and when you add in buying rhino.........
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Re: Max price drop? 
By thesuperph on Apr 20, 2002 04:13 AM
no way , what i know thats it is more than that (about 10x) if its that cheep ,then it deserves the try ??? , ill check its site to see how much deos it cost these days, thank you
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Re: Max price drop? 
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